DO YOU GET IT NOW??
Mass murder on an unimaginable scale... indefensible. These terrorists don't care about religion. They don't want to "talk" or "negotiate". And you can't reason with them and there is no level of appeasement that does not require your death or complete subjugation.
DO YOU GET IT NOW?
THEY.DO.NOT.CARE.
THEY.JUST.WANT.(YOU)(ME)(US).DEAD.
D-E-A-D.
DEAD.
The plot as we all know by now involved British born young men of Pakistani descent (the first stories said Muslim, but that "civil rights organization" CAIR must have gotten out the "we're so offended" message early 'cause the "Muslim" thing disappeared from the airwaves right quick) to bring liquid explosives onto planes and detonate the bombs in mid-flight on UK flights bound for the USA... more than 20 arrests made with continuing apprehensions and investigations...
So MILLIONS of people are inconvenienced, flights cancelled, time and money lost... and it just makes me want to ask the following:
Why aren't we just prohibiting young middle eastern men from traveling?? Perhaps if we inconvenienced the entire middle eastern population enough they would start cooperating and policing their own communities and become intolerant of those in their communities that preach hate and death under the protections of "freedom of speech" and "freedom of religion".
I don't believe "profiling" is tantamount to discrimination. If someone said today, "Some Japanese men will bomb Pearl Harbor" do you think we'd be looking for white, middle-aged women? I think if you want to claim discrimination you should have to prove long term detriment -- and not just an extra 20 minutes getting searched before you board an airplane -- especially a plane I'm on or my kids are on or my family or friends are on! I'm not promoting that they be put in interment camps for heaven's sake (although if this crap continues I could be swayed...), just that we come to our senses and get over the whole "we might offend someone" thing.
Do you think that woman with the two small children on that plane plumeting into the sea would care whether she had been offended when we stopped her husband or brother and asked their intentions? If she is more concerned about her being offended than the safety of her children, she should take a car or a train. And as Lisa's Mama told her, "Walking ain't crowded." I care enough about my safety AND hers to tell them all to "get over it." What's that saying, "Put your big [girl] [boy] panties on and deal with it."
Frankly, if someone said that they had reason to believe that 50-something, grey-haired, white American women with a Chicago accent posed a threat, I'd be the first to say, "Not me. Come take a look."
I'm not saying that all middle eastern men are guilty -- but we know that SOME are. I'm sorry you're in that group. And frankly, I don't give a damn that you're offended. You can do something about this, but you don't so now we all have to live with the consequence.
DO YOU GET IT NOW?
And I just have to wonder if the Brits caught these guys and saved thousands of lives because they tracked the money and listened to phone calls from known terrorists to British citizens??
posted by Some Soldier's Mom @ 12:54 PM
14 Comments
14 Comments:
Now maybe the people who still remain in LaLa land will see it for what it is...World War III
You are partly right, but I still don’t think you really get it. This is the real war on terror, fought by police, intelligent services, informers and all the resources of efficient law enforcement.
It doesn’t need fighter jets, aircraft carriers, and 100,000 plus troops running around Iraq trying to stop a civil war.
realist,
Having served my time in the GWOT some 25+ years ago. What we really need is not 100,000 troops running around the Middle east, we need 10 Millions troops running around the Middle East, Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Iran, Syria etc.
Unfortunately, in a democracy majority rules, and drafting 10 Million men for a fight for the survival of mankind is just not going to happen until the Iranians start lobbing nukes.
But hey...if it takes 40 or 50 million dead to get people to wake up...thats what it takes.
Law enforcement is a "band-aid solution". It stops the cut bleeding, but does nothing about the maniac with the knife attacking you.
Military action in the ME to shift the culture of hate into something more constructive is attacking the root causes. Is it a successful strategy for taking care of them? I think so, in the long run, but I could be wrong. There are other ways of going about it. But I'm less sure they would work.
As for the topic of the original post - I agree that profiling is not necessarily "racist". Hell, racism is an unwarranted mistreatment of someone based on their race. For example, if you did a study of driver ability, and you found asian people were were drivers on average (I have no idea if this is true - it may well not be - this is hypothetical), it would not be racist to report that. It WOULD be racist if you made the assertion with absolutely no evidence. Similarly if you just liked harassing middle eastern men, that would be wrong, but when enough of them are terrorists it's simply common sense.
Anyway I sympathise with what SSM has to say, but I'm not sure that I agree that if you inconvenience Middle Eastern Men they will be angered, suddenly "get it" and start turning in the bad apples in their ranks. I don't think their culture works like that, and that's the problem. They have a history of blaming problems on everyone but themselves. Usually the Jews or those Evil Americans. Until we can get these people to have a bit of humility and recognize that they are part of the solution to terrorism that type of thing won't necessarily be constructive.
Don't get me wrong, some of them do care and act to stop terrorism. But I don't believe it's nearly enough of them yet.
Solder’s dad:
You make my point exactly. Bush isn’t serious about the GWOT it’s all talk. No conscription, no tax increases, no sacrifices to the general population. All the strain on a wonderful group of volunteers who are overstretched and under resourced and being slowly ground down for (in Iraq) no reason. And don’t get me started about Afghanistan.
Nicholas:
Racial profiling never works. Think Richard Reid and plenty of other examples.
But law enforcement does work. Although the full story isn’t in yet it appeared to work here and would have worked pre 9/11 if so many hadn’t been asleep at the wheel.
But using military force alone to win hearts and minds? It will never work. Think Lebanon currently, think the Soviet’s Afghanistan experience.
Unless and until our leaders start thinking beyond bombs and bullets alone we are going to be in an endless war that we can never win.
Realist,
I've been banging the same drum for 25 years. The drum doesn't play on the hill. Maybe the Salami Approach(cutting off a small slice, and eventually the salami is gone) will work.
It's a really big maybe.
At least Bush had the ball's to cut off a small piece of Salami.
What would happen if we brought our Troops all home today?
A. We would all live happily ever after. Group hugs for everybody.
B. The terrorist would retake Iraq and then come over here.
I"m pretty sure choice A isn't the correct answer because they want us DEAD!!!
1st Cav Mom
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Realist: Obviously not every single terrorist is of Middle Eastern appearance. But a large percentage of them are. For that matter, there are plenty of violent, problematic and psychologically disturbed people besides terrorists. But that doesn't make terrorism a non-threat in and of itself.
No, you won't get a 100% catch by only being suspicious of Middle Eastern men. But you might get say 75% or 90% by searching maybe 5% as many people.
Of course, what hasn't been discussed yet, is that if that happened it would create an incentive for terrorists to recruit people who do not fit the typical profile of a terrorist. I think that would be the case. But it would make their job harder, and I'm all for that.
Saying that just because SOME terrorists don't fit the racial profile that it's a useless technique is a bit silly. You'd have to show that the improved efficiency and ability to prevent terrorism was marginal whereas the problems it created were significant. I don't think you've shown that.
As for "using the military to win hearts and minds". I don't think you can win hearts and minds using the military in the short term. But there are a couple of things you can do: you can create a disincentive for harbouring and assisting terrorists, and you can attempt to change the culture which leads to the problem in the first place.
Changing the culture doesn't necessarily mean winning hearts and minds, although if we can that would be nice. It also means re-adjusting their societies so that they're less pathological. For example, I believe much of the frustration whichi leads to terrorism has oppression as its root cause. Remove that oppression and even if they still hate our guts, it will make taking the violence to us less appealing. Instead those who would do us violence will have avenues available to them to better their standing in the world. Perhaps their selfishness will overwhelm their violent feelings and they can channel their aggression into become wealthy and improving the standard of their life, which might ultimately moderate their views.
Personally I don't really care what people think of me/us as long as they don't come over here and try to kill us. Or each other, for that matter.
I don't think Middle Easterners are really any more violent than anyone else, I think too many of them channel their aggression in the wrong direction though. It would be much better if someone who felt like blowing themselves up in a pizza parlour watched a violent movie or played a video game instead.
By the way, thanks for disagreeing with me in such a polite manner. I really appreciate it.
Quick additional comment: I don't think racial profiling is a "nice" thing to do. I'm also not sure that I would support it if there was some kind of referrendum. However, I don't think terrorism is "nice" either and I suspect the harm of racial profiling, in terms of inconveniencing those people who are unfortunately from the same places that terrorists are (and who don't deserve the treatment) is going to be less than the harm of a single terrorist act.
That is, given the choice between being rude to some people, and having innocent people blown to pieces or shot up or otherwise horribly killed, I think I'd pick the rudeness option.
I too am a white 50-something Army mom and I agree with every word you said. We said in cubeworld yesterday - who doesn't NOW believe we're in a global war against terrorism? Raise your hands. The Libs were strangely quiet. What will it take to convince the LaLa Land population that we have to proactively defend and protect freedom for all people...not just ourselves?
ok, mister... there is some serious tinfoiling going on here... you need to get a grip 'cause you are not livng in the real world...
And the people said
"AMEN"
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